On this episode, I sat down with REAL Course instructor, Jon Waller to discuss personal development courses. We both give very frank and sometimes comical personal accounts of our own experiences. We take a deep dive into the history of the personal development course universe, going all the way back to the 1970’s, and the controversial EST course. Jon shares about how he and the REAL Course team continue to work diligently to build a safe and ethical program. I experienced Jon as open and transparent, which allowed us to have a meaningful dialogue. This is not the infomercial you might be expecting. To my many friends who are a part of this community, I hope we have done justice to this discussion, and I hope you all enjoy it.